There can be you to definitely argument I do want to suggest that is also destroyed new-light towards the dialogue up until now. It will no less than captivate the idea your Hierarchy was not so crucial and you may unpassioned. I’ve said thus far your opposite out-of Urstad are true; Alcibiades enjoys Socrates within the a larger so much more comprehensive means, not vice-versa. But can Socrates ever love Alcibiades? The ascent is anyway be a common feel. Why don’t we continue steadily to view Socrates and Alcibiades. Alcibiades tells Socrates, “Socrates ‘s the simply worthy spouse to possess him in which he can please Socrates by any means in the event that Socrates believes to help him attain the maximum excellence (218c-d).” Alcibiades will not discover love (or perhaps Plato’s like) and really wants to dive new tips of Hierarchy and therefore Socrates of course denies him. Socrates yet not does help Alcibiades rise brand new Hierarchy. Much like in other Plato’s dialogues, although not therefore clearly from the Symposium, Socrates’ behavior towards Alcibiades is that of normal Socratic trend – elenchus. And much like with other interlocutors, Socrates actually leaves Alcibiades perplexed and humiliated, however in a position in which Alcibiades can be reevaluate his assumptions throughout the like and truly begin hiking new Hierarchy. This really is like just what Diotima does having Socrates. And then we see so it that have Alcibiades and you may Socrates. Thus Urstad provides they some baffled. And you can Socrates can love Alcibiades also, and maybe we are able to simply assume, however, just and only when the Alcibiades ascends brand new Hierarchy to fit having Socrates. It simply then entertains people possible security away from Plato. The idea is that expertise can be 
embodied if in case we select our selves on the same action of your own ascent we are able to nevertheless like each other for those abstract qualities. For this reason, love does not have to become thus crucial and impersonal due to the fact this new critics ensure it is off to feel.
Socrates seems totally unmotivated because of the bodily pleasures and unreactive to your of Alcibiades’ sexual improves
In the end, there is certainly you to redeemable quality one to Plato’s Hierarchy out-of Love provides – it includes you that have eternal satisfaction and immortality. Others relationship value listing is that ranging from Socrates and you can Plato themselves. Plato must have cherished Socrates similarly to Alcibiades, but Plato is probably within increased step-on brand new Steps than just Alcibiades, maybe extremely next to Socrates. And also the outcome is one another men turned immortalized in the works for instance the Symposium. Plato, the newest philosopher, and Socrates their mouthpiece recreated information one to live to this day and certainly will live forever.
Plato. Symposium. Plato during the Twelve Quantities, Vol. nine interpreted of the Harold Letter. Fowler. Cambridge, MA, Harvard College Force; London area, William Heinemann Ltd. 1925.
Because of the virtue with the, someone can invariably love each other given he could be to the exact same step-on the fresh new Steps
Kristian Urstad’s response to well-known complaint try valiant, but it fails to persuade united states. It becomes really tricky with Alcibiades’ speech and you may frustrates any more you will need to protect Plato. Socrates is probably to the 5th action but seriously new second half of Ladder, if you are Alcibiades which pursues Socrates is found on the 3rd. We could guarantee this since the Alcibiades enjoys Socrates exactly who isn’t aesthetically pleasing (he compares your so you’re able to a satyr in the 215b), so he need love Socrates getting his gorgeous heart. It is not Socrates’ looks however, his expertise who’s a keen sexual pull on boys instance Alcibiades. This will be at least particular evidence the Ladder is present since the Alcibiades was early in the day enjoying bodies and onto enjoying souls. But which demonstrates that Socrates that is within a higher action into the Ladder than Alcibiades, rejects Alcibiades’ love. Will we notice that Socrates enjoys Alcibiades here in people big a lot more comprehensive scope such as for instance Urstad ways? The solution was more than likely zero. Socrates after that claims he or she is “not trying to find buying and selling their legitimate expertise to possess bodily beauty…[or] gold getting bronze (218e).” There is no condition where Socrates normally love Alcibiades because Socrates likes wisdom only. New facts is within the proven fact that Socrates does not sleep you to definitely night otherwise have a great dangle over have always been. Rather the guy stays up and contends the whole some time following goes on the their regular team the very next day. His passion for wisdom is not hindered otherwise interrupted by the any interruptions available on early in the day actions. Drawn with her, Urstad isn’t necessarily completely wrong, the guy only features things corrected. Even as we climb new Hierarchy we create dump any attract and you may really worth in those in the down degree. We absolutely do not like him or her in any deeper extent. Yet not, the opposite appears to be correct. Men and women in the all the way down strategies love men and women during the high of these into the an effective richer, fuller styles. Alcibiades likes Socrates perhaps not getting their looks but for his spirit, to have his experience with Greek garments and you may regulations, and also for his understanding. Plato’s critics are still correct, but Urstad is on so you’re able to something that needs to be lit.